Curse

this_barb · Jan 07, 2006, 12:33 PM // 12:33

Here's a list of small changes ANet could make that would make organizing parties easier:

There should be an emote that lists all the skills you have equipped in your skill bar.

Instead of spamming for groups, there should be 2 distinct windows. One that has all the teams that are currently looking for members, and another one that has a list of all the free people who are looking for groups. Each window should allow some sort of comment box so you can list some informatio about the group. Free people would see the first window, and team leaders would see the second window.

Now onto my solution for IWAY:

IWAY should be nerfed in such a way that it does not include pet corpses in its effect. It states "For each dead ally..." and yet it includes pets. There are many other skills that affect "allies" including Heal Party, Order spells, and Aegis, but none of these affect pets. So it should become a universal concept, of sorts, for global ally-specific spells to only affect human allies.

gotenks · Jan 07, 2006, 01:54 PM // 13:54

/agree with the first part. Its a brilliant idea for PvP, quite similar to auction houses for PvE. Sticky and have a vote on it so that the devs can implement it quick.

On the second, I think the skills/spells you mentioned affect party members and not allies. Although in my opinion the whole race/allies thing does have some ambiguities which should be addressed.

against · Jan 07, 2006, 06:21 PM // 18:21

lol dan

IWAY doesn't need to be nerfed. If you nerf IWAY, you also have to nerf Savage Shot, Energy Surge, Obsidian Flame and every other skill that has a build around it.

edit: All those skills you mentioned are worded "party" not "allies".

Kaguya · Jan 07, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by this_barb

IWAY should be nerfed in such a way that it does not include pet corpses in its effect. It states "For each dead ally..." and yet it includes pets. There are many other skills that affect "allies" including Heal Party, Order spells, and Aegis, but none of these affect pets. So it should become a universal concept, of sorts, for global ally-specific spells to only affect human allies.

Actually, I think the pet should be concidered an ally. Well, it is. Fighting with you, killing the monsters/players you are, it's helping you, it's your ally. Morelike heal party etc should affect pets as well. [edit: or what against said above, good point]

Just my two cents]

Rafe · Jan 07, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

I see no need to nerf the actual IWAY build. It is quite quite simple to counter, and only a good group is able to use it to get very far... Just like any other build.

lishi · Jan 07, 2006, 11:16 PM // 23:16

while i hate iway also , the only thing i think is unbalaced in iway is EoE.

Navaros · Jan 08, 2006, 08:42 AM // 08:42

IWAY has already gotten the one and only nerfing it is deserving to have, a very long time ago.

Nerfing IWAY more just because some players are not experienced and/or skilled enough to beat it would be unjust and immoral.

Pets are allies, hence the IWAY skill should work on them.

Besides that, most IWAY teams are not smart enough to have the IWAY skill active at all times, so nerfing that one skill would not really lessen the prevalance or success rate of IWAY parties by all that much anyhow.

EoE does not need nerfing because it already negatively affects the team who put it down to the same extent that it negatively affects everyone else.

Rico Carridan · Jan 08, 2006, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by this_barb

Here's a list of small changes ANet could make that would make organizing parties easier:

There should be an emote that lists all the skills you have equipped in your skill bar.

Instead of spamming for groups, there should be 2 distinct windows. One that has all the teams that are currently looking for members, and another one that has a list of all the free people who are looking for groups. Each window should allow some sort of comment box so you can list some informatio about the group. Free people would see the first window, and team leaders would see the second window.

Now onto my solution for IWAY:

IWAY should be nerfed in such a way that it does not include pet corpses in its effect. It states "For each dead ally..." and yet it includes pets. There are many other skills that affect "allies" including Heal Party, Order spells, and Aegis, but none of these affect pets. So it should become a universal concept, of sorts, for global ally-specific spells to only affect human allies.

I agree with the first bit. I disagree with the second. Find a solution that doesn't gimp people who play beastmaster.

Rico

Smasher/Devourer · Jan 08, 2006, 11:07 PM // 23:07

I also think your first comments have merit, but think that nerfing IWAY is completely unnecessary. A nerf is required when a particular build or skill is shown to break the game balance, not when a particular build or skill reaches a certain level of popularity. IWAY is popular because it is very easy to assemble and can be played without the same level of communication and coordination between players that a more complicated build might require. But it's not overpowered. IWAY has plenty of weaknesses that any competent group will be able to exploit.

audioaxes · Jan 08, 2006, 11:38 PM // 23:38

nothing with iway builds need to be nerfed, my groups can handily beat an iway group just with just a lvl 10 ward v melee and a prot monk with aegis, and most of all, playing smart

no spiteful necro, no trapper

a cadet · Jan 08, 2006, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico Carridan

I agree with the first bit. I disagree with the second. Find a solution that doesn't gimp people who play beastmaster.

One would hope that, when playing a beastmaster, your pet is alive the majority of the time. The pets used in IWAY are there primarily to trigger traps, die, and consequently fuel the IWAY skill. Someone who uses pet related skills wouldnt want the pet to hit traps, die, and then stay dead. In that sense, i dont think that reducing the targets of similar skills to affect only "allies" would hurt a beastmaster.

tomcruisejr · Jan 09, 2006, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by a cadet

One would hope that, when playing a beastmaster, your pet is alive the majority of the time. The pets used in IWAY are there primarily to trigger traps, die, and consequently fuel the IWAY skill. Someone who uses pet related skills wouldnt want the pet to hit traps, die, and then stay dead.

guy, here is a thought. :P

the pets do a great job protecting their masters by triggering the traps. so why would not a warrior avenge his pet for that?

and in iway, they didnt die without a purpose. they died defending their masters and helping their masters to win.

animal cruelty? nope. its called empowering and giving value to the pets.

oh noes, my pet wont be lying there forever dead coz i got Revive Animal skill

Pet is an ally. gamewise and rl wise.

cheers :P

Sagius Truthbarron · Jan 09, 2006, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Quote:

IWAY should be nerfed in such a way that it does not include pet corpses in its effect. It states "For each dead ally..." and yet it includes pets. There are many other skills that affect "allies" including Heal Party, Order spells, and Aegis,

Pets are allies. Heal Party , Aegis, and orders spells target [i]party members[i] as it says in the describtion.

A true example would be Heal Other which targets [b]other allies (that is, other than yourself)[b] and this skill works on pets, aswell as minions.

Pets are allies. IWAY works on allies. How is this an exploit or an understatement? It isn't. I'm shocked that no one mentioned this.

Your suggestion for 'fixing' the IWAY skill is actually to have the spell target dead Party Members. Seriously, if the build were an exploit, it might be good.

The objective here should be to stop so many people playing IWAY thinking it is a 'faction farmer'. I'm sure simply reporting "Nerfed IWAY build' would get people to stop using it

.. A kick to their moral.

tafy69 · Jan 09, 2006, 07:24 AM // 07:24

IWAY should be capped at around 20 seconds, Its totally broken skill that allows 60+ seconds of +6 health regen and +33% attack speed!

Rico Carridan · Jan 09, 2006, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by a cadet

One would hope that, when playing a beastmaster, your pet is alive the majority of the time. The pets used in IWAY are there primarily to trigger traps, die, and consequently fuel the IWAY skill. Someone who uses pet related skills wouldnt want the pet to hit traps, die, and then stay dead. In that sense, i dont think that reducing the targets of similar skills to affect only "allies" would hurt a beastmaster.

The pet doesn't have to stay dead. If the pet gets ressed, you still gain the benefits of IWAY if you use it while the pet is dead. Honestly, I would prefer my pet hitting the traps than me, given the choice, IWAY or not.

I think Sagius has hit on the bigger point here: IWAY is not broken, it does exactly what it is supposed to, nor is it imbalanced, the scenarios required to actually make use of the skill are extremely limited, thus, there is not reason that Anet should nerf this skill. If anything, they should make it better! I mean, let's face it, aside from the PvP IWAY build, is there any circumstance where you would consider using this skill in any build? As I mentioned, probably not, unless maybe if you play beastmaster. IWAY PvP builds are a gimmick. They are, really and truly, a subpar build, whose only advantage is that they require little preparation or teamwork to play, which is what makes them popular. IWAY is to PvP what W/Mo's are to PvE.

Rico

Rafe · Jan 09, 2006, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico Carridan

They are, really and truly, a subpar build, whose only advantage is that they require little preparation or teamwork to play, which is what makes them popular. IWAY is to PvP what W/Mo's are to PvE.

W/Mos in PvE do require lots of work to get a good one. Lots of people have poorly made W/Mos, but just like any other build a good tank can influence a battle, PvE OR PvP.
[/offtopic]
Like I said, I think that IWAY is fine, it's only skill IS it is easy to make. If anything does need nerfing it isn't the IWAY skill.

MMSDome · Jan 10, 2006, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by against

lol dan

IWAY doesn't need to be nerfed. If you nerf IWAY, you also have to nerf Savage Shot, Energy Surge, Obsidian Flame and every other skill that has a build around it.

edit: All those skills you mentioned are worded "party" not "allies".

yea but IWAY is a pillsbury doe boy build that everyone knows how to make and form. It has no chance of winning HoH just a faction/fame farm. Its pretty cheap.

/agree to nerf IWAY!!!

Orbberius · Jan 10, 2006, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Yes to better group-forming, no to IWAY nerf

kennel · Jan 10, 2006, 02:49 AM // 02:49

hmm iway cant win hoh yet your math teacher held it for quite a while the other day

lmao iway needs not nerfing not broken imo when im n build and i see iway i fell like spamming out free faction as most groups are new to playin iway or have 1 player who is and we carry ways of stopping the iway via traps, wam, waf and aegis

iway is like faction farming yet ranger spike isnt

just accept iway will most likely not be nerfed

ok

thanks ^_^

Rico Carridan · Jan 10, 2006, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rafe

W/Mos in PvE do require lots of work to get a good one. Lots of people have poorly made W/Mos, but just like any other build a good tank can influence a battle, PvE OR PvP.

My point exactly. IWAY is easy to play but generally subpar; W/Mo is easy to play but generally subpar. You can have an extremely good IWAY team; you can have an extremely good W/Mo. It just doesn't happen very often.

Rico